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50 Responses

  1. si hiven says:

    Since the brexit disaster, Tories cannot even keep the lights on in London.

  2. TONY UK says:

    Portugal promises sunshine for expats…
    Portugal has told British ex-pats that they should not fear reprisals after Brexit.

    Margarida Marques, Portuguese secretary of state for Europe, said that Lisbon did not want to jeopardise relations with Britain whatever the outcome of its negotiations with the European Union.

    “We are open, as [Britain] was for seven centuries, for reciprocity,” Mrs Marques said. “It means British citizens will have in Portugal exactly the same rights that Portuguese people living in the UK.”

    Mrs Marques, who is leading Portugal’s Brexit negotiations, met Theresa May two weeks ago for talks in London, along with Antonio Costa, prime minister.

    She said: “We have reassured British people living in northern Portugal or in the south on the Algarve that nothing will change until Britain leaves the EU. Then . . .we may develop a reciprocal deal.”

    A taste for port in the 17th century established a long trading relationship that has mutated into tourism and construction, with British companies involved in building villas or golf courses.

    Mrs Marques said: “The British might be impatient to negotiate a bilateral deal with the governments and the diplomats. This must be a temptation. But they must accept that our position is not going to be negotiated bilaterally.”

    She said that a “red line” for any Brexit deal must be that Britain must first negotiate leaving the EU with Brussels rather than individual countries.

    Mrs Marques, once an EC commissioner, said she believed the final Brexit trade deal would not be like those between the EU and Norway or Canada. “I think it is going to be something completely different,” she said.

  3. TONY UK says:

    Manufacturers hiring again as pound’s slide lifts demand..

    Britain’s manufacturers have ended the year on a high after enjoying a better than expected recovery.

    With further gains from a weak pound to come, investment and recruitment is on the rise as the industry looks to fulfil increasing demand, according to a poll of nearly 400 companies by EEF, the manufacturers organisation, and BDO.

    The balance of companies reporting growth in the final quarter jumped to 13 per cent from -7 per cent previously, the first time the outlook has been positive since last year.

    Strong performance in the motor vehicles sector and gains for metal products drove the change while electronics continued to grow amid increasing demand in Asia and the US.

    The orders pipeline has entered positive territory for the first time in five years with the balance of companies reporting a growth in orders improving to 13 per cent compared with -4 per cent in the previous quarter.

    The change was mainly down to better conditions in the UK, but EEF hopes that export markets will improve early next year.

    Lee Hopley, EEF chief economist, said: “This is the most upbeat reading on the state of manufacturing we’ve seen for some 18 months.

    “It signals the start of brightening conditions, which had been briefly knocked off course following the referendum.”

  4. dloverise says:

    Well, he said it himself,Boris Johnson will make Brexit a "titanic" success!

  5. TONY UK says:

    Meanwhile a typical Remainer outside the high court today..

  6. Time the UK get their guns back too

  7. TONY UK says:

    Services sector expands at fastest rate in ten months…
    This bad news doesnt let up does it…

    Growth in the UK’s dominant services sector reached a ten-month high in November, suggesting that the economy will expand at a faster pace than expected in the final quarter of the year, according to a closely watched survey.

    Economists said that the data for the sector, which makes up 80 per cent of the economy, suggested that economic growth as a whole remained “resiliently robust” in the final quarter of the year and would maintain the third quarter’s solid 0.5 per cent growth rate through to the end of the year. This would be higher than the forecast of 0.4 per cent from the Bank of England and the Office for Budget Responsibility.

    The purchasing managers’ index for services, which is considered one of the best indicators of the strength of the sector, showed a reading of 55.2, up from 54.5 in October. This was the highest reading since January and beat forecasts from economists, who had been expecting weaker growth compared to October. Any reading above 50 marks expansion. It follows a similarly strong PMI reading for construction last week, although manufacturing dipped slightly.

    Service sector providers said that the level of new business rose for the fourth straight month, while the weak pound boosted international demand and the rate of job creation was the highest since April.

    Chris Williamson, chief business economist at IHS Markit, which compiles the survey, said: “The further upturn in the vast services sector shows that the pace of UK economic growth remains resiliently robust in the fourth quarter, despite ongoing uncertainty caused by Brexit.”

    Official figures and other surveys suggest that the economy has kept up most of its pace since the referendum despite concern among businesses about the possibility of a “hard Brexit”. The second estimate of GDP growth for the third quarter remained at a forecast-busting rate of 0.5 per cent. If growth continued that pace in the fourth quarter then GDP for the year would be 2.1 per cent, higher than the forecasts for any other G7 nation. This would defy earlier fears that growth would be flat or even shrink in the two quarters following the Brexit vote.

    Yet although Markit said that the inflation rate in input prices eased slightly for the first time since May the weak pound continued to affect imports for the services sector, driving up import costs such as food, higher fuel prices and international travel costs.

    Markit said that the past two months have seen the steepest rise in business costs for more than five and a half years and this is likely to start feeding through to consumers in the form of higher prices.

    Inflationary pressures and political uncertainty has caused business sentiment to weaken for the first time since July, the PMI survey showed.

    David Noble, chief executive of the Chartered Institute of Procurement & Supply said: “The silent undercurrent of uncertainty dampened the mood compared to last month, as business sentiment was at its lowest since July and the second-lowest since December 2012. This reveals how the result of the EU referendum vote and now the US election continues to have an impact on future business expectations.”

    Ruth Gregory, an economist at Capital Economics, said that economic growth was likely to slow in 2017. “A moderation in growth next year still seems likely as rising inflation eats into households’ real income growth and uncertainty delays some business investment,” she said.

  8. John Smith says:

    I have learnt a valuable lesson during this referendum vote, while observing the rise of trump, the growth of Islam and the questionable interference of Russia. It is that no one side is the good guy. No one side is the bad guy, but also not the good guy. Everyone is out for themselves, amoral and indifferent. Because when the world never tells you the truth, you have to look out for number 1. That's what divides politicians and leaders, people who lie and the people who tell the truth. Because a genuine leader would not lie, if it meant that everyone got something out of it.

    No matter who you are, what side of the fence you are on, we can at least all agree that politicians lie. Sometimes, that's all you need to know to realise that your voice didn't matter in the first place. Because all politicians lie

  9. Seeing this now, I'm actually starting to regret voting to stay in… I was blind… I had no idea what I was actually voting for.

  10. Trump and farage the A team

  11. Alex Brainin says:

    Government committee regulated economy? USSR tried that model. Didn't work. People were sold on same ideas of a idealistic crusade. EU is like USSR only with polite liberalists instead of communists. Now let's see if you guys actually leave or stay. Either way, best of luck to people of UK.

  12. TONY UK says:

    Economy to defy Brexit fears…

    Britain should finish the year as the fastest growing economy of seven leading nations, one of the most closely watched indicators suggests.

    The country’s dominant service sector has experienced its best month since January, the survey of businesses showed, defying fears of a slump in growth after the Brexit vote. Experts believe that Britain’s “resiliently robust” economy is on course to grow at 0.5 per cent in the final quarter, a period for which official data is not yet available. This beats forecasts by the Bank of England and puts Britain ahead of the rest of the G7 — the US, France, Germany, Italy, Japan and Canada.

    “As things stand, the survey-based evidence is very encouraging,” Alan Clarke, an economist at Scotiabank, said. “If it is right, then we are looking at a very good end to 2016.”

  13. Acefreaky says:

    Dame louise Casey 's report on immigration is the first sign that those higher up the chain finally "get" why Brexit occured . Ordinary working prople finding their wages suppressed , their children fighting for poorly paid jobs and their communities drastically altered . All to satisfy the ideological whims of the Brussels elites. We never voted for an invasion , just as now they insist on leaving the ships portholes open even as a fierce storm batters the ship ……good luck Germany but your ship is sinking , we are headed for a safer shore.

  14. please people. trump wouldn't even be considered for presidency if the elite didn't already know he would do what they want

  15. Pro EU people are as ignorant as the American Liberals. All of which should be stood against a wall and promptly shot!

  16. yid m2 says:

    Even after brexit, a long time after, when UK is out of EU, the largest active political party is likely to be based on RE-JOINING the EU. Unless all the rest of UK supports one party, like UKIP. As time goes on, every problem the UK has will be laid at the door of BREXIT and the Tories.

    Scotland as a whole has a slim majority say 10 percent, to be in UK, but all the MP's are SNP.

  17. TONY UK says:

    I think he was one of those Eggsperts…'I was wrong about Brexit!' Britain's most influential historian Niall Ferguson says he made a mistake in backing the Remain campaign and says the EU 'deserved' the result
    'I admit that I was wrong,' says Niall Ferguson in an astonishing U-turn on Brexit
    Says EU 'deserved Brexit' because of its failure on the euro, foreign policy, open border migration and failure to combat Islamic extremism
    Admits he was wrong to defend Cameron and Osborne and should have 'listened to people in pubs' about their concerns on immigration..

  18. Steve L says:

    Finally there is no doubt, the Tories are simply stalling about brexit.

  19. Steve L says:

    The only possible reason to not have a plan, is because Tories still need two contradictory plans at the same time or develop new party divisions. The Tories are incapable of being UKIP light

  20. Amir says:


  21. david fair says:

    We are still at the bit where the cartoon character is still walking out into the air level with the cliff top.

  22. Steve L says:

    At least finally the banks are sodding off.

  23. Noor al amin says:

    BRA EXIT great, off your bra or whatever you have like bra. But true is that Germany is the king and BR is one of their subordinate slave in EU. Sounds true, now time to show your nipple. nipple free globe happy globe isn't it ? ……..BR never ever can save them from EU kingdom they will remain slave for ever .and for ever ……..yes ,,,yes…yea

  24. TONY UK says:

    We’ll thrive after Brexit, university chiefs tell MPs…

    Universities could thrive outside the European Union after Brexit, vice-chancellors said today in a surprise announcement.

    Universities UK (UUK), the representative body for higher education institution heads, told MPs that they would continue to succeed after Brexit, as long as they had the right government support. It puts the organisation at odds with individual statements from leading vice-chancellors who warned of grave dangers, serious threats and major challenges if Britain leaves the EU.

    They said that the sector had already been harmed by the referendum vote and predicted worse to come, in submissions by universities to the House of Commons education select committee.

    Cambridge University said that Brexit posed “a significant risk to higher education and research activities in the UK”, adding: “In particular we are concerned about the prospect of a ‘cliff edge’ for universities in which regulatory and visa changes have a sudden and damaging impact.”

    About 10 per cent of Cambridge undergraduates come from other EU countries, but the university revealed that applications from the 27 remaining member states had fallen by 14 per cent this year. The university said it was looking at the prospect of a two-thirds reduction in admissions from the EU after Brexit. It warned that UK universities would no longer be able to charge lower fees for European students than for those from outside the EU, meaning that some may face a sharp price rise in the middle of their course.

    The London School of Economics told the committee: “We are all at risk if the government persists in including students in the net migration target and reducing the numbers of international students, and restricts access to EU research funding. International students are essential if we are to be able to provide the same or a better quality of education to UK students as provided at present, as the fees of international students subsidise the cost of education for UK students, as well as subsidising research.”

    University College London warned that Brexit created a “heightened reputational risk for UK education as a whole.”

    By contrast, UUK said that, with the right support from government, universities would be able to thrive outside the EU. Its submission acknowledged difficulties, saying: “Leaving the European Union poses some major challenges for the UK higher education system, in relation to the recruitment of talented students and staff from across Europe and beyond, future access to invaluable EU networks and funding and international opportunities for UK students and staff.”

    It added: “However, Universities UK believes that, with the right support and investment from government, both now and in the future, universities can thrive outside the European Union.”

    Neil Carmichael, the chairman of the education committee, said government action was needed to ensure that Brexit was not a catastrophe for the university sector. Mr Carmichael, the Conservative MP for Stroud, said: “This written evidence from university leaders, academics, businesses and others highlights the degree of concern about the fate of UK universities post-Brexit.

    “The evidence raises a variety of issues relating to freedom of movement, including the prospects for recruiting EU students post-Brexit and the future rights of EU staff to live and work in the UK.

    “Concerns are also raised about how to maintain the UK as an attractive destination for EU and international students, about the financial viability of universities, and the need to ensure Britain can continue to compete on the international stage as a provider of world-class university education.

    “In our inquiry, we are determined to examine the opportunities for higher education post-Brexit and consider what the government’s priorities should be for the sector going into the negotiations with the EU. It’s crucial that we don’t allow Brexit to become a catastrophe for our university sector.”

  25. Steve L says:

    There is no longer any need to take the UK Government seriously, or even Theresa May at all. It can all be run through the courts later for explanation or clarification.

  26. TONY UK says:

    They’re lovin’ it! McDonald’s is moving European base TO the UK despite warning against Brexit before the historic referendum.. tut tut another Remaintard lie put to bed…

  27. Erika Binosa says:

    I'm only here to do research for my homework… It's an essay so i'm happy I found this :)

  28. I bet brexitors are happy about the strength of sterling.

  29. Steve L says:

    Tories and Brexit: putting politics before everything else.

  30. TONY UK says:

    'I wonder how long it can last': Cameron warns of the death of the Euro and blames 'populism' for his own demise as he gives first major address since leaving office.. No David it was something called Democracy and you quitting your job..

  31. Marcheken T says:

    Brexit only means Britain Exit, it does not include the rest of the UK, that would be UKxit. In any case Northern Ireland has an independent relationship with Brussels enshrined by referendums leading up to the Good Friday agreement, and by the UN-recognised British Irish agreement and the Northern Ireland Act of 1998.

  32. DazidSpore24 says:

    You're already independent you dumbasses, you can govern yourself and the EU doesn't control you, it isn't centralized, and the EU improves your economy, the euro zone have ruined many economies but the European Union itself helps economies, which has been proven correct cause after you voted for brexit the pound have dropped, you destroyed your own currency and your economy is gonna be fucked

  33. James Fells says:

    So basically with the UK leaving the EU, we have handed Germany what it wanted back in 1939: It's lebensraum in the east, and total political control over the rest of Europe. Fantastic work.

  34. Bródúil as a bheith Éireannach!
    <3 <3

  35. jules ju says:

    BREXIT will happen in name only agenda is still on track

  36. Thank brilliance of democracy for delivering the eu leave vote for the British people whose membership of the EU proved fruitless incapable of proving any significant returns for uk membership no worth provided to Britain caused the British leave vote

  37. david fair says:

    In most cases a government decision is pence on the pound, some change like a longer phone number, or some stock item that needs a licence. But the brexit crisis is different, it is outright millions simply losing their livelihoods, instantly. Moving on, or working together is not going to happen in just a few lifetimes. The pressure against brexit is really going to ramp up in a few years.

  38. most engrossing documentary and eye opening. leaving the EU means leaving all EU bureaucracy let's get on with world wide trade

  39. TONY UK says:

    When we leave the EU we’ll see how much it has held us back..
    Britain can resume its position as the greatest trading nation on earth..

    Back in the Eighties, as trade secretary preparing for the next trade round, I flew to the European Commission in Brussels to meet the trade commissioner and other ministers. We went through his agenda, commodity by commodity. Every time one trade minister said one thing, another disagreed and I cannot recall we agreed on anything; no one went away happy. That’s when I became a Eurosceptic, for I realised that as long as we were members we would never have a trade agreement that suited us.

    The Eighties showed that a government led by a prime minister prepared to take tough decisions and plan for the long term will succeed. Under Theresa May’s leadership we must raise our game, take equally tough decisions and transform our economy to become a trading nation with the whole world in its sights.

    As we enter negotiations we are in a strong position, for the day we leave the EU we become its largest trading partner. Furthermore, there is a large, ever-increasing deficit in their favour, and the biggest deficit by far is with Germany.

    The history of the EU shows that what’s good for Germany ends up being good for the EU, and I cannot see Germany tolerating tariffs that would harm its exports.

    Ending free movement must be the reddest of red lines in the negotiations because for the foreseeable future the job opportunities in the EU are largely in the UK. Since there are no signs that the economies of any of the other EU countries are improving, continued pressure on the UK from immigration will be unsustainable. We must regain control of our borders.

    Let’s get on with the negotiations. When we leave we will appreciate how much the EU has held us back. Instead of only having trade agreements to which no member objects, we can just contract direct with whomever we like.

    Already countries amounting to two thirds of global GDP have said they would like to trade directly with us again. In the coming years, with hard work, we can resume our position as the greatest trading nation on earth.

    Lord Young of Graffham was trade and industry secretary, 1987-89

  40. si hiven says:

    When we leave the EU? How is that going to happen? We are 6 months after the vote and less than nothing has been achieved. In order to continue half the Tories need the single market, the other half want out of the customs union. This only works while there is no actual Brexit.

  41. TONY UK says:

    Nobel economics prize winner: ‘The euro was a mistake’…

    The European Union should embark on a process of decentralisation and return certain areas of decision making to the member states if it wants to survive and thrive, according to Nobel Memorial Prize in Economic Sciences winner Oliver Hart. EurActiv Spain reports.

    Today (9 December), Hart and his colleague, Bengt Holmström, will receive the top prize for their work on contract theory, which covers everything from how CEOs are paid to privatisation.

    Hart told EFE that he believes the keyword in EU politics is now “decentralisation” and that Brussels has “gone too far in centralising power”. The British-born economist said that “if it abandons this trend, the EU could survive and flourish, otherwise, it could fail”.

    The Harvard University professor insisted that the EU member states are not “sufficiently homogeneous” to be considered one single entity, adding that trying to make the EU-28 into one was an “error”.

    Hart said that the concerns felt by the member states about decision making and centralisation of power in Brussels should be addressed by returning competences to the EU capitals.

    The Nobel winner conceded that the EU should retain control of “some important areas”, like free trade and free movement of workers, the latter of which he admitted is “ultimately, an idea that I personally like, although I understand that there are political worries”.

    His prize-winning colleague, Holmström, also told EFE that the EU needs to “redefine its priorities, limiting its activities and its regulatory arm, in order to focus on what can be done on the essential things”.

    The Finnish economist, who also teaches at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT), said that Brussels needs to rejig its system of governance and its basic rules in order to make them “clearer and simpler”.

    Hart argued that “the euro was an mistake” and said that it’s an opinion that he has maintained ever since the monetary union was first introduced.

    The economist added that it “wouldn’t be a sad thing at all” if in the future Europe abandoned the single currency and that the British were “very clever” to stay out of it.

  42. Steve L says:

    Brexit continues to provide staggering wealth for the Elites. An improvement for big exporting businesses and small improvements in technical indicators for the traders. If you don’t own a large company or have a trading floor however, you are paid less as the pound devalues and some prices even increase if the goods are imported.

  43. si hiven says:

    It was David Co-moron and the rest of the Tory numpties that created the brexit crisis. They have no interest in anything else. There have been shorter wars than this, and far less expensive.

  44. yid m2 says:

    The dreary demolition of Britain continues with the brexit crisis, those solid performers the Tory party have done, let me see….. absolutely nothing. Oh yes, remained in power, agreed to to anything, and denied everything.

  45. U O says:

    When the woman says "what's the point in knowing them if you have no power over them?" Democracy isn't about having power over people!
    So they are saying the EU is not democratic and them having power over them is?

    Typical British geezers.

  46. yid m2 says:

    Speed limits are not are not democratic, nevertheless the point is we all have the same rule, those going faster are breaking it. This is the point, a Union of democracies is not of itself the same democracy. Or even speed limit.

  47. TONY UK says:

    Bravo, Screaming Lord Corbyn. You alienate the 52% — and the 48%

    How did they do it? Sometimes you just have to stand back and admire political brilliance when you see it. Marvel at the cunning and ruthlessness, the clarity of vision. I am talking of course about the Labour Party, which, back in the summer, was presented with the perfect political opportunity. A government in disarray, nay collapse. The Liberal Democrats, which had seemingly ceased to exist. And Ukip leaderless and with its rival candidates punching the hell out of each other.

    And from that position, a few short months ago, Labour has managed — incredibly — to render itself absolutely irrelevant to everybody. It is a remarkable achievement. When you consider how divided was our country over the referendum, the feat of alienating both remainers and leavers took some doing — but Jeremy Corbyn was up to the task.

    The remainers know that Labour is both confused and hamstrung in its attitude to Brexit and will not fight their corner. They know too that the party’s leadership is, at best, equivocal about the EU and likes only the stuff that everybody else hates — that is, mass immigration, regulations and bureaucracy.

    The leavers, meanwhile, had already deserted by late summer, appalled that countless Labour MPs representing constituencies that were more than two-thirds in favour of getting out had campaigned against their constituents’ interests. And so the Labour Party has nothing whatsoever to offer anybody on the biggest political issue of the past 50 years. Yay! Result!

    I don’t suppose you were hugely surprised that Labour performed so abjectly in the Sleaford and North Hykeham by-election, coming fourth and with a vote more than 7,000 down on its 2015 performance (which was disastrous, but now looks positively vibrant.)

    Even Labour wasn’t surprised. Some benighted sap was wheeled out to exult in the fact that the Labour candidate hadn’t actually lost his deposit, as its perfectly decent candidate did the week before in the Richmond Park by-election.

    That’s how high they’re setting the bar — we’re just about beating the loonies! No. Look in the mirror. It is not that you are beating the loonies. You have become the loonies. You are right down there with the single-issue nutjobs, the mirthless Lord Sutch and that old bloke who was worried about road safety, Lieutenant-Commander Bill Boaks. Opposition parties are meant to win elections. Not break open the bubbly because they’ve saved £500.

    Given the divisions in the party and the hilariously ineffectual leadership, even this vote is at risk
    It is not just about Brexit. It goes far deeper. Labour opposed Brexit, albeit half-heartedly, because it has come to despise the views of almost all of the people who used to vote for the party — the working class, the northerners, the Welsh, people of the Midlands. This is true of both the Corbynistas and the Blairites, to be fair. In the referendum the party preferred to go along with that comparatively tiny tranche of their voter base, the affluent metropolitan liberals.

    But given the divisions in the party and the hilariously ineffectual leadership, even this vote is at risk. It has already been outflanked by the Lib Dems; don’t be surprised if the Greens start beating it too. Labour has become a party that does not know what it stands for, aside from radical chic posturing. The Cuban solidarity stuff, for example. Or out of snobbery banning from its conference McDonald’s, which employs 85,000 and provides cheap, tasty food that people — other than Labour Party members — enjoy. You know, ordinary people.

    Cliff is still wired for sound. Unfortunately
    Be very afraid — Sir Cliff Richard is taking his revenge. His awful single, It’s Better to Dream, is a possible Christmas No 1 while that terrifying ghost of Christmases past, Mistletoe and Wine, is blaring out of every shop front.

    And now Cliff has announced that he intends to make three more albums. Yes, three. I suppose it is very nasty to wish that the Old Bill had found something — anything — incriminating when they ransacked his property with the connivance of the BBC. But they didn’t, and he’s back.

    Hordes of Canada
    Lots of penguins in a Canadian zoo have been found dead, having “mysteriously” drowned. Experts are baffled — but it is clear that this was mass suicide caused by the flood of American liberals coming over the border to escape the rule of Trump.

    Animals are very right wing and highly sensitive to adverse political developments. When Jeremy Corbyn became Labour leader I noticed that scores of badgers had flung themselves into the middle of our busy roads to be squelched. Whereas on June 24 this year I came downstairs to find rabbits and foxes holding an impromptu party on my lawn, all differences forgotten.

    Canadian humans, meanwhile, are getting a little weary of applications for residency from American professors of sociology, Black Lives Matter campaigners and caterwauling singers. It is to be hoped that these decent people remain strong and do not copy the penguins, and all drown themselves.

    Inciting hate? Hell, it’s the new normal
    The extremely strange-looking Dutchman, Geert Wilders, has just been found guilty of “hate speech” and “incitement”. The politician had asked an audience of people: “Do you want fewer or more Moroccans in your country?” They all plumped, with considerable enthusiasm, for the former option.

    I wonder if the charges against Wilders would have been brought if they’d said: “More, many more, please!” And why weren’t the audience arrested? Isn’t it worse to say you want fewer Moroccans in the country than simply to pose the question?

    None of this will harm Wilders, who is beginning to open up a large lead in the opinion polls, having once been considered a fringe loony. Soon there will be no liberals running European countries. Soon Nigel Farage will be seen as a bit of a pinko.

    And one more question. Is it absolutely necessary for populist politicians to have absurd hair?

    The Knightley news
    British actresses — what would we do for laughs without them? They are the gift that keeps on giving. The latest is Keira Knightley, she of the giant underbite. According to Keira her 18-month-old daughter, Edie, avidly watched the US election news on TV, as you might expect. And when it was announced that Donald Trump had won, the child apparently turned onto her back and said: “F***!” Keira added: “I was so proud.” Well indeed, as would we all be.

    Keira’s husband, incidentally, is called James Righton. This is a great name for a luvvie’s spouse. If only they could all be called James Righton, or Bob Whiningliberal, or Jack Upperclasscorbynistahalfwit, we’d know where we stand.

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